to David Weller and tom miller

to David Weller and tom miller

• sarika

  This workaround didn't work for me because Device.Aquire() in MDX for .NET 2.0 didn't seem to be working at all.
  
  But I've found another workaround: Just create a new C# Class Library just for DirectInput and use MDX for .NET 1.1
  
  Now DirectInput works fine and I can still use the new Beta Library for Direct3D.
  
  

• a1call

  Well I wish you luck and I hope you do come back and work on it - the world needs more managed directx and it it never good when the money runs out.
  
  I hope Tom answers your questions about the missing parts of the beta. I haven't had time to open it myself to see what is and isn't there.
  
  
  Back to Tin Soldiers... I just installed the demo. It tells me its going to install MDX, I can see it call the DirectX installer to put managed directX 9.0b on my machine. I can look at the references in the EXE and the DLLs and they all reference managed directX. I don't have any instance of csgl.dll on my machine anywhere so I'm pretty sure its not using OpenGL.Net. I'm pretty sure you are wrong on this one but its not worth debating in here. email me zman@thzbuffer.com what you are seeing in Salamander becuase I'm fascinated what you are seeing.
  
  

• Sameer Murudkar

  Don't get me wrong, I understand your pain. C# and MDX *do* allow you to do more with less (in my opinion) but that isn't where the issue lies in this case.
  
  Your problem is that you (and therefore your investor) took a gamble on an unannounced product which did not have a release date. You can't blame Microsoft for your decision here. Its basic software development process to know your risks and have a mitigation strategy for each of them.
  
  e.g. part of your product plan should have included the following:
  Risk: Product is dependant on Managed DirectX for .Net 2.0 which currently does not have an release date.
  Mitigation options:
  1. Continue to use MDX for .Net 1.1 - this will decrease performance
  2. Move our release date - this will increase costs
  3. Shut down development.
  4. etc etc
  
  Then when the risk actually occurs as it has done, your team including the investor have to make a decision.
  
  When you talk about the perf increase is that your engine in 1.1 vs your engine in 2.0 or just the difference between using the MDX for 1.1 and MDX for 2.0. I really can't imagine a huge difference in speed just switching out the managed assembly. When it comes down to it MDX is fast because it does very little other than pass stuff through to the native code. If you are correct there will be a lot of happy people.
  
  As for the DirectX mobile - it is part of Windows Mobile 5 - its not even built by the DirectX team so it cannot be release on the same schedule and as far as I know its not an upgradeable component - you get what comes with the OS when it is put on the device. The Mobile guys copied the style of managed DirectX so that the code was almost the same but there was sadly no guarantee that would be maintained.
  
  And as for Tin soldiers, since I've never seen the code I can only tell you what I've been told by the developer, and what Kiois told Microsoft (http://download.microsoft.com/documents/customerevidence/12419_MicrosoftDirectX_CS.doc) and Tom Miller. I'm sure they wouldn't put their companies reputation on the line by making this up.
  
  
  
  

• SNKGUNZ

  use remotesoft salamander and reverse
  you will se it use opengl.net
  
  i am sorry i just get pist off
  
  Wen you take windows mobile and with upgrade to 5.0 (Gizmondo it use OpenglES )
  
  i am sorry it is becourse our invester can not sid and wait for results.
  
  wen he started this project,  he heard do more with less
  
  and now it gonna be February and that is 6 month that is to long time
  
  .Net 2.0/VS2005 directx has a preformanes gaing over 1700 frames to net.1.1 directx tested on 7 diff. graphics card
  
  
  but ven vista is gonna hit the market are the same tings gonna happend
  that the directx is way back and windows mobile is running another kind of directx and so on
  
  mabye wen you download the directx sdk in the future
  
  you have to have a full packede
  
  windows xp directx sdk
  windows mobile directx sdk
  media center directx sdk
  
  and so on so thay are sync. 
  
  better to release a sdk not 2 month but 4 month and thay are sync.
  
  
  and again zman i love you site you are the light of out firm becource
  you allways have the news..
  
  i just get pist off on our investor that he wont go the distance..
  but that life
  
  i michael hansen have the copyright over the code
  
  mabye i will release the source code
  
  for the world editor and engine
  so people can selv fix the mouse and keyboard controling code later
  
  i have to see it all gonna happende at xmax time
  
  Best regards
  
  Michael Hansen

  
  
  

• Coldfeet

  i will do that
  i sign up again for the beta program
  
  ..
  
  
  

• Garrett McGowan MSFT

  i will end this here
  but any way thats life
  
  i have found another bug
  
  Compare.LessEqual is gone i think;

  device.RenderState.ZBufferFunction = Compare.LessEqual;
  
  
  mabye i will take the developement up again wen microsoft has a final release of
  
  directx for net 2.0
  
  in the meen time i have to look for another job
  
  but i will looking at your website for news now and then
  
  
  best regards
  michael hansen
  

  
  
  

• zgierski

  use remotesoft salamander and reverse
  you will se it use opengl.net
  
  i am sorry i just get pist off
  
  Wen you take windows mobile and with upgrade to 5.0 (Gizmondo it use OpenglES )
  
  i am sorry it is becourse our invester can not sid and wait for results.
  
  wen he started this project,  he heard do more with less
  
  and now it gonna be February and that is 6 month that is to long time
  
  .Net 2.0/VS2005 directx has a preformanes gaing over 1700 frames to net.1.1 directx tested on 7 diff. graphics card
  
  
  

• Adria Grau Rovira

  use remotesoft salamander and reverse
  you will se it use opengl.net
  
  
  
  

• GaneshPalwe

  Re: Tin Soldiers - it uses Managed DirectX. I know the lead developer personally. http://www.thezbuffer.com/articles/90.aspx why would they make claims like that if they were not true. I'll see if Marshall will pop in and counter your claims.
  
  You are correct about Arena wars, but that's because the author started it before MDX was available. I talked to Benjamin at PDC and he's pretty much 100% MDX now including a partnership with Microsoft on a new game called Rocket Commander http://abi.exdream.com/blog/PermaLink.aspx guid=329a139b-43de-4741-a101-4d1c2fd463fe
  
  Remember that nobody is forcing you to use the new (and beta) MDX for .Net 2.0 assemblies - there has never been a promised release date so planning your product's release date around an unknown date was always going to be a big risk. The 1.1 assemblies work just fine with .Net 2.0/VS2005 and they have working DirectInput so why not continue to use those Since you are a game engine you probably abstract most of the rendering API from the end user anyway.
  
  Given that the next release of the SDK is February its unlikely you will see anything before then. Lets hope David or Tom can pull some strings.
  
  Yes its not good that just when Managed DirectX mobile hits the market that Managed DirectX regular changes the API. But if that's important to you then its another reason to keep using the 1.1 assemblies.
  
  Yes its not good that the SDK changes - its a young SDK and that's what happens as it matures and its best it happens while there are relatively few users (compared to the native APIs). Generally with SDKs like DirectX that come out every 2 months you pick one and stick with it. Maybe doing a couple of upgrades if there are bugs or if you want a new feature. You do not have to take every single one as they arrive.
  
  And yes I too would love to see more engines and games with MDX.

  
  
  

• Thomas_J

  I won't beat a dead horse about the eventual release of MDX for the .NET Framework 2.0, and the decision to use it for a 'shipping' product (to use that old cliche), but will address the first issue with the mouse.. The missing guid constants are a bug that will be addressed, but a valid workaround in the interim would be to use the enumeration methods and find the first device with DeviceType.Mouse.
  
  

• hgalyan

  mabye i am worng
  
  but let stop this tread.
  
  i just get so pist off
  
  why does microsoft just upgrade the net 1.1 directx to 2.0
  
  and have a happy xmax
  
  and then 1 month before release netframework 2.0
  the directx change..
  
  
  microsoft kud have done this.
   
  make a tread in the forum
  
  say hello folks the new directx is gonna get close to cli
  
  so people are preperet for change to the directx..
  
  remember we a customer of microsoft
  and the other developers are customer of us.
  
  we build great software and and microsoft can premot ther platform on us
  
  what if a simple pop3 control has gone like this helll.
  the nobordy will bye it.
  
  ...
  project 3d evolution.
  
  our game engine i set to be relaese at the primear of net fromework 2.0
  
  that was our goal
  
  And directx net.1.1 is for net 1.1..
  otherwise why release a directx 2.0 net
  way not wait for vista.
  vista is there ware the software will change and programing model.
  
  .....................................................
  let play with vista in the future
  
  wen you browse your folders aka. windows explore
  
  you can see the folders ...but witch folder is on your harddisk..and wicth is on a windows server far away or your broadband connector server for services
  you have byed from isp. aka. games ...
  
  so i just install on demand let 1 mb.
  but all content (graphics , sound .aka..) is still in your folder you can see on your harddisk
  but the folder is really on a wondows server far away.
   
  ................................................................................
  
  
  but the directx change 180 degrees from august to october and it was buggy.
  
  so 4 peoble was working 18 hours a day to get it right
  
  and now a bug agian in december,, you say it is a beta 2
  
  has microsoft ever relese a beta 3 no...
  beta 2 has nogen to stable enof.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
   
  
  

• Thomas Fairris

  Hi Michael,
  
  First, thanks for buying the games! I hope you like them.  Second, sorry you are in such a bind.  I can say I completely relate to living on the edge of broke.
  
  I'm just curious as to what you saw that makes you say Tin Soldiers doesn't use Managed DirectX   I promise both games do.
  
  We are actually working on our 3rd title that uses MDX.  I wish I could talk more about it, but it hasn't been announced yet.
  
  Cheers,
  
  

• GeorgeLuo

  The version of Managed DirectX for the 2.0 framework is under beta, therefore we do not encourage you to attempt production-quality work with it unless you are certain your timetable can handle the uncertainty.  In addition, there is no fundamental advantage that the 2.0 libraries give you over the 1.1 libraries in the short-term.  You can either switch to the 1.1 libraries, or, at your own risk, use the improved 2.0 libraries that came with December's SDK release yesterday.
  
  In addition, if you choose to continue using the 2.0 beta libraries, we ask that you sign up for the beta program and use the beta newsgroups, which are separate from these forums.  These newsgroups are heavily tracked by our internal engineers, and is the best way to achieve two-way communication regarding beta APIs.
  
  
  
  

• Jaan

  Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I'm glad to see Texas Quest mentioned ;)  There are usually alternative means to doing something though, perhaps you could obtain input another way
  
  
• to David Weller and tom miller