VWD requires SQL Server Express 2005 ?

VWD requires SQL Server Express 2005 ?

• Answer please

  Hi, Shamez.
  
  Thanks for your reply.
  
  If I recall correctly, connecting to SQL Server 2000,
  and to MSDE, was possible right up until Beta 1.
  
  The connectivity was removed after Beta 1.
  
  Why was the connectivity removed
  
  Even now, if you test a connection to SQL Server 2000
  or an MSDE database, the test connection works!
  
  What is so hard about being able to save a test connection which succeeds,
  even now, in favor of restricting connectivity to SQL Server Express
  
  It's not like it takes a technological breakthrough to retain a capability
  which already works, right Restricting connectivity to SQL Express
  just doesn't cut it, and I hear many grumblings from developers regarding that.
  
  Re:
  "Developers should be able to build quite compelling and powerful applications with these Express line of products, targeting SQL Server Express as a backend database."
  
  So, developers who have SQL Server 2000 or MSDE are left by the wayside
  We will just have to find ourselves another IDE for RAD development
  
  Thanks for addressing these questions.
  
  
  Juan
  ASP.NET MVP
  
  
  

• Vnsmith5

  Does this mean, since I have installed Visual Web Developer Express edition beta 2 that I dont need SSE which doesnt seem to want to install on my system.
  
     SO can I use SQL 2000 in place of SSE
  
     Or expanding this question a bit, If SSE is intended for VWD 2005 beta 2 why doesnt it install.  I spent over 6 hours yesterday trying everything I could, several clean installs and I could never get it to install.
  
     I also tried my other systems I have in my home all of which by the way are Win xp Pro OS.
  
      I would like to use SSE, but since I cant and since I love VWD I really would like to be able to use all of its features.  Can I do that with SQL 2000
  
  
  vbMarkO
  

• laszlo.gosztola

  Juan, this is the first time we are shipping "Express" flavors. We always had STD or higher SKUs. The database connectivity story has not changed from STD in 2003 and STD in 2005. Express, which I state again, is targeted for a begginer developer, and has a smaller set of features. This is one reason to take the price down significantly.
  
  What flavor of VS (pre-2005) do you currently use
  
  -Shamez

  
  
  

• nashvilledan

  Hi Juan,
  
  I'll add to my previous comment. We do support connecting to Access Databases from the Express line of products. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.
  
  --Shamez
  
  
  

• Shawn_CEO

  Juan,
  
  I have verified with the VWD Express team that VWD Express is the only Express product that *will* support connecting to non-local databases. The team feels strongly that most of the users will not have their Database on the same machine as the webserver. The entry in the ReadMe file has an error and will be fixed before we ship Beta2. The correct message is that VB Express, C# Express, J# Express, and C++ Express will only support connecting to Local Databases (SQL Server Express).
  
  Note: From VWD Express, you will not be able to "create" new databases through VWD. I don't think this would block you in any case, as you can create your DBs in SQL 2K directly.
  
  Please let me know if you have any other concerns. I hope this resolves your concern above.
  
  Regards
  --Shamez
  
  
  

• Im Greatest

  Expanding on my first post, this apparently is a problem
  with *all* Express Editions of Visual Studio 2005 Beta.
  
  The readme at :
  drive:\VWD\Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition Beta 2-
  English\readme.htm

  says that :

  ---000---
  2.5.   SQL Serverc Express is the only version of SQL Server
  that works with the Express Editions of Visual Studio 2005 Beta.

  SQL Server Express is the only version of SQL Server that can work
  with the Express <language> Editions of Visual Studio 2005 Beta.

  The affected versions include the following: Visual Basicc Express Edition
  Beta, Visual C++c Express Edition Beta, Visual C#c Express Edition Beta,
  Visual J#c Express Edition Beta, and Visual Web Developerc Express Edition
  Beta.

  To resolve this issue

  If you failed to specify SQL Server Expressc when you installed your Express
  edition, you can install it by going to Add/Remove Programs and adding the
  optional component.
  ---000---

  IDEs which reduce connectivity, instead of expanding it,
  and which limit connectivity to a *single* database platform
  of the DevTeam's choosing, will have a difficult time getting
  accepted by developers.

  This is my critical feedback.
  In my limited understanding of things, it's a life-or-death issue.

  It could interfere with widespread acceptance of *all*
  Express <language> Editions of Visual Studio 2005.

  In fact, it looks like a *major* gaffe.
  
  I also think it's critical, if VWD/Express products are going to be
  of interest to the market segment they are apparently directed to,
  ( small-to-medium web project developers, since enterprise-level
  projects will gravitate towards VS.NET ) that VWD, and its brethren
  Express IDE products, *do* connect to SQL 2000, MSDE and Access.

  It's hard to understand why Express <language>
  Editions of Visual Studio 2005 won't have that capability.
  
  Thanks for your answer to my worry.
  
  
  Juan T. Llibre
  ASP.NET MVP
  

  
  
  

• Jean St-Arneault

  re:
  >If you're a seasoned developer who uses SQL2K for your database needs,
  >we'd expect you to be able to purchase at least the Standard version of VS.
  
  That's a huge expectation.
  
  This is the first time I hear of crippling an IDE's database connection
  capabilities in order to promote sales of a higher-end IDE.
  
  What this looks like is that you're forcing the purchase of VS,
  for developers who have no need to purchase a high-end product like VS.
  
  While I understand a marketing push, requiring a database platform upgrade 
  for developers who don't need a db platform upgrade, in order to be able to
  use an IDE which targets a new ASP.NET version, is asinine.
  
  If I need an IDE which lets me develop ASP.NET 2.0 apps,
  I shouldn't have to upgrade my database platform to use it.
  
  IDE's are supposed to connect to multiple database platforms.
  
  You are giving anti-Microsoft hasslers new ammunition if you cripple
  VWD's, and the whole stable of Express products,  database connectivity.
  
  re:
  >If you use MSDE a lot, then we highly recommend
  > you upgrade your DB to SQL Server Express
  
  I don't use MSDE "a lot". I use SQL Server 2000 "a lot".
  
  I feel like I'm being hung out to dry, and my only "sin" was purchasing SQL Server 2000.
  Don't I deserve being able to use Microsoft's new IDE for ASP.NET 2.0
  
  Why should I, or would I, use crippled products,
  like VWD and the rest of the Express product line
  
  You should backtrack from this strategy as fast as you can,
  and provide as much database connectivity as you can to
  VWD and all other Express products.
  
  Anything else will result in lesser market share for those products.
  
  Nobody, and developers in particular, likes to have their hands tied.
  
  best regards,
  
  
  
  Juan
  ASP.NET MVP
  
  
  
  
  

• chale

  Hi Shamez,
  
  I've been following this thread and I am very relieved to read your latest post on this subject. I believe the oringinal poster made an excellent case for SQL 2000 support accross the whole product line and I thank him and you for hashing this out for us here.
  
  Will there continue to be a developers license for SQL 2000
  
  Sincerely,
  Jeff
  

• Your Neighbour

  Hello Juan;
  
  Thanks for sharing your feedback. It is true VWD Express (as well as all the other Express versions - Visual Basic, C#, and J#) support connecting to SQL Server Express and not SQL Server 2000. They also don't support connecting to the *full* version of SQL Server 2005. These Express products have been designed to be lightweight, easy-to-use, and easy-to-learn tools for hobbyists, enthusiasts, and novices, with low-cost entry point. Developers should be able to build quite compelling and powerful applications with these Express line of products, targeting SQL Server Express as a backend database.
  
  We do, however, support connecting to the full version of SQL Server 2000 and 2005 with the Standard, Professional, and the other enterprise-level flavors of Visual Studio 2005.
  
  If you have more questions, please let me know.
  
  Thanks again
  --Shamez
  
  

• Jennifer Huang

  re:
  > there are a number of beginner developers out there that will
  > have their needs met with SSE and VWD Express or VB/C#/J# Express.
  
  That's really great.
  
  It's nice to see that beginning developers will have such a wide variety
  of IDE choices but, which Microsoft product will meet *my* needs
  
  Won't Microsoft meet *my* needs,
  and the needs of a gazillion other developers, then
  
  Or, will we be hung out to dry
  
  I find it just amazing that *existing* customers are being hung out to dry,
  because of a marketing strategy which allegedly favors beginning developers. 
  
  How many developers have SQL Server 2000 as their database platform
  What do you expect them to do, in order them to continue to develop their ASP.NET applications 
  
  Do you believe they will stay loyal to Microsoft
  
  Do you believe that SQL Server Express even approaches the functionality
  and reliability of SQL Server 2000
  
  WIll developers who rely on SQL Server 2000 for their database needs
  have to switch to other software manufacturer's development IDEs to
  continue developing their web apps because Microsoft is abandoning them
  
  re:
  >that would increase the cost of the product
  
  Exactly how would the cost of the product be increased
  by restoring functionality which was available in Beta 1
  
  Uncrippling a feature isn't *that* expensive!
  
  Hmmm... maybe there will be a market for a 3rd party product
  which provides the functionality which apparently will continue
  to be crippled out of the Express SKU line.
  
  The Express line will still support extensibility, right
  Or is that getting crippled out, too
  
  
  
  Juan
  
  

• Sean2408

  Just to add more comments to my previous post...
  
  We absolutely did not intend to cripple the product down. We also don't consider purchasing SQL Server 2000 a sinful thing . It is great that you're using SQL 2K - and we thank you for that. But there are a number of beginner developers out there that will have their needs met with SSE and VWD Express or VB/C#/J# Express. These developers should not need to spend a lot more to get tools to build their applications. Express flavors will help them achieve their goals.
  
  If we add more features to Express, we would bring it closer to STD, and that would increase the cost of the product. Our goal is to keep the cost down for the customer and still give them features they can use to build compelling applications.
  
  I hope I'm further clarifying your concerns.
  
  --Shamez
  
  
  

• Jim Reyne

  That is excellent news, Shamez.
  
  I knew there had to be some misunderstanding at the root of this.
  
  I'll be looking forward to testing Beta 2 against SQL Server 2000
  databases using VWD, and so will many developers, I'm sure.
  
  You're right about the ability to create databases not being needed from within VWD.
  That would entail unnecessary complexity (and higher developments costs, I'm sure ).
  
  Thank you for staying the course.
  
  best regards,
  
  
  Juan
  
  
  

• EdwinLam

  Hi Juan,
  
  The goal is not to ignore the developers who have SQL 2K or MSDE. If you're a seasoned developer who uses SQL2K for your database needs, we'd expect you to be able to purchase at least the Standard version of VS. Feature packaging here is analogous to Standard and say the Team System. You get a lot more features with Team System compared to Standard. The cost structure reflects that. When you get Express, there are a number of features you don't get.
  
  For the targeted user, the features in Express should take you a long way. For more advanced developers, Express may not be the best choice - for instance, you don't get any support for Source Code Control, you don't get the new SQL Reporting Services, etc. When you buy Standard, these features, in addition to connecting to SQL 2000 and 2005, are available.
  
  If you use MSDE a lot, then we highly recommend you upgrade your DB to SQL Server Express (SSE). Deploying MSDE is not trivial. With new deployment features in VS 2005 like ClickOnce (included in Express and higher flavors), you get awesome support for deploying your SSE databases with your applications. You will definately benefit using SSE in this case.
  
  I hope I have answered your questions. Feel free to share more of your thoughts on this.
  
  Regards
  -Shamez
  
  
  

• Mrishi

  re:
  >this is the first time we are shipping "Express" flavors
  
  And it's very important that you get it right the first time.
  An IDE which can only connect to ONE database platform will fail in the market.
  
  re:
  > Express, which I state again, is targeted for a begginer developer, and has a
  > smaller set of features. This is one reason to take the price down significantly.
  
  You should find some other features to cripple.
  Database connectivity can't be one of them.
  
  It used to be that "beginner" programs were limited by networking features
  (like Team System, or the ability to work with VSS) but would have full
   functionality otherwise, particularly in such a critical area as being able to 
  make database connections to different platforms.
  
  Even Web Matrix ( and you don't get much more of a "beginner" program than that one )
  was able to connect to different database platforms.
  
  What really puzzles me is that the ability to connect to SQL Server 2000/MSDE was *removed* after Beta 1.
  The connectivity *was there*, as it well should be.
  
  Even now, test connections *do* succeed when tried but the user can't *save* the connection data.
  
  Why that was done, clearly as a marketing strategy designed to cripple an otherwise fine product line, is beyond me.
  
  The home developer/enthusiast/hobbyist can well afford $100 for an IDE tool,
  but spending the kind of money which the full-featured VS costs is beyond his reach.
  
  If you insist on making VS.NET the only Microsoft IDE to work with different database platforms,
  instead of that connectivity being a standard feature in *all* IDEs, what you will be doing is
  pushing those developers to other development platforms. That is incredibly shortsighted.
  
  It's your call, but if you think that more units of VS.NET will be sold because the
  Express line of products can't connect to different db platforms, you're in for a
  little bit of a surprise at the marketplace.
  
  Nobody needs, or will put up with, intentionally crippled development environments.
  
  
  Juan
  
  
• VWD requires SQL Server Express 2005 ?